Deborah Lessen has been around for a long, long time, and she is to me a cult figure in the Pilates world. I see her as the unofficial grand ‘teacher of teachers’ because she is sought after by many ‘big Pilates names’. I met Deborah last year at the PMA conference and since then have been hoping and praying that she would like to be a part of Pilates Intel in some way. Luckily for all of us, Deborah likes Pilates Intel, and is always happy to sit and have a chat with me, which is great except for the small fact that she is busier than all heck with the people who come from worldwide to study with her, so she simply never has time. But just recently the impossible became possible, and we had a Skype date.
First a little background for the few who may not know Deborah….she started Pilates with Joseph Pilates’ ‘first protégé,’ Carola Trier in New York as an injured dancer (Deborah was a dancer with Martha Graham and is best friends with my own very EXCELLENT Graham teacher – Judith Leifer). It was not Deborah’s intention to teach, but Carola needed teachers, and so it happened organically that she trained with Carola (Carola was also part of training other Pilates teachers such as Romana Kysenwska, Kathy Grant, Lolita San Miguel, Alan Herdman and Jillian Hessel, to name a few) Deborah was a co-defendant (along with Balance Body’s Ken Endelman) in the well-known federal trademark infringement action for use of the name “Pilates,” wherein she was being sued for using the name without permission. In response she rallied the community to oppose the action. In November 1999 came the well known sweeping victory in her favor and it was during the celebration of that achievement that the Pilates Method Alliance was launched, and that she was the head of for ten years.
Deborah ‘s studio is a part of her loft in the Soho region of NYC. It is small and simple, and always has been. ‘In the old days, I could not buzz people in, so I had to put the keys into a sock, and throw them out the window to my customers. Even in the middle of the winter!’ Her studio is equipped with two of everything…. Trapeze Tables, High Chairs, Reformers, and teachers.
She opens at 8:30, sometimes earlier. Her clientele consists of about 50% Pilates teachers with a lot of experience, with many travelling from afar to study. Deborah does not advertise, and never has. “In the times before the internet, if you did not hear about me through someone who knows me, you would never have found me.”
What a lady! But in talking to Deborah you face a down to earth and extremely intelligent, giving person.
I just really like her, and the conversation goes starts easily, and we get right into it.
Deborah, why are you sought after by so many teachers as their Pilates trainer?
“I want them to feel safe, heard and that this is their personal time. When you are working out in your own studio there is a pressure to perform, it is not a learning situation. Also, I am not an enforcer, if they are trained by someone else, I suggest how they can do things, but I don’t care if they follow through with that, unless of course they are doing something not good for their bodies. I think older teachers come to me because they often have body issues that will never go away. When your gymnastic/dance body starts to exist in hindsight, you have to find a way to keep your joints and musculature healthy. My challenge as a teacher is to be present and observe, communicating with each person to know where they are that moment.”
Deborah, what do you find is lacking in teacher training today?
“Hey, this is a huge topic. In general, I feel what is lacking is the old fashioned apprenticeship portion where the student spends time with a very experienced teacher and starts to understand the teacher’s decision making. When that student then gets to know his/her own decision making in teaching, there is a reference. Modern teacher training is totally lacking in that, you have more the program of an intensive week – and then it’s back to the tundra. There simply is not enough influence on development.
“My background with Carola definitely put me in a trajectory of what I think a Pilates teacher’s job is – to teach others to live happily in their body. Nowadays there is much emphasis on getting so many bodies into group classes, that the teachers are not growing to really help people get inside of their bodies. I mean, adult beginners do not even feel their bodies yet….so the teacher is responsible for taking them on a journey, a journey in which at some point the client will take ownership of.”
A Pilates Teacher’s Skill Level
“Deborah, I received some poignant words from a fellow who has been in the Pilates world for over 25 years. He told me that in the 90s the Pilates world was a small community of highly skilled individuals, wherein at any gathering all present could perform all of the advanced exercises. With the explosion of Pilates in the last decade, that skill level decreased radically, and he found that many teachers did not even look like they were doing Pilates. His words were not critical and arrogant, but rather a poignant observation that in some ways Pilates had been diluted…and that dedication within the larger community was lacking.”
“Alright, I am glad you brought this up because I see things very differently. If you have a studio full of capable and hypermobile people, that is great. But that is not who walks into my studio. As a teacher, you have to be able to work with any one, and challenge them. So to make a statement like ‘to do Pilates you have to be able to do a high bridge on the edge of a cliff’ just makes no sense to me.
I interrupt, “But as a person calling themselves a Pilates teacher, should one not be able to do the advanced work?”
“No, not necessarily…I think that everyone should be aware of the full original repertoire, but you use it when it is appropriate. There are some incredible teachers who started with a herniated disk. There are things that they should never do…does that mean they are not a good Pilates teacher?”
“Mmmmmm, it depends, I mean if you are doing Pilates well, should the herniated disk repair so that you can attain a high skill level?”
“Yes, within the realm of what is safe for your body to do. If you had a herniated disk, you should be doing everything in neutral spine and hyper extension, but not in hyper flexion…and it is possible that for the rest of your life it may not be safe to do hyper flexion even when you are out of the critical phase of that injury. So you know what, we just have to keep learning. My exposure at Carola’s was that about a third to half of her clients were referrals from orthopedists, post-surgical and chronic problems. And so I thought that the way she worked with them was what a Pilates teacher was. I am aware of this other philosophy of ‘Pilates is for healthy bodies and if you cannot do this then you shouldn’t be here.’
She has me on the defense and we laugh and I concede that “yes, I am a snob, I do think that teachers should be highly skilled, and that they should constantly be educating themselves further.”
And this naturally took us into a new, but related subject…
Dancer and Non-Dancer as Teacher
“Deborah, do you see a difference in the dancer and non-dancer Pilates teacher?”
“I have a funny story about that. Entrance into my teacher trainings required both a written and practical entrance exam. A woman wanted to enroll but had no movement background, so she called and asked what the practical exam was about. I explained that I needed to see her movement skills and ability to communicate. And she replied ‘well I have been selling retail at Barney’s for 11 years, and I can sell anything to anyone!’” Deborah laughs aloud. “And she became a really good teacher!”
“You see” she continued, “dancers have another problem…they come with an aesthetic that takes a long time to peel away from the pure mechanics.
“Yeah, well, that may be a reason that you wouldn’t like me,” I say smiling.
“No Brett, I love the aesthetics….but you can’t make your non-dancer clients like it.”
“Well, I try!” (still smiling).
“I think that video that you put in your newsletter of that lovely young lady in Florida (Christina Maria Gadar), I mean she is spectacular, truly beautiful and fantastic. But if you showed this video to most people who do Pilates, they would become frightened and just quit!” We laugh some more.
I break in, “ok, back to the dancer. In my observation, dancers are extremely dedicated, you remember yourself…we were young, hungry, and even when we were sick and tired…we got up and went to class. Of course, there are no absolutes and there are plenty of exceptions, but in general I find that dancers apply their innate dedication to their Pilates career. I observe in the Pilates population around me that the ex-dancers are far more likely to shell out the time and money to further educate themselves, while the non-dancers are more likely to be satisfied with the certificate they have earned. And in that I find there is a difference in quality between the dancers and non-dancers.”
“Yes, Brett, on that point I agree with you. But let’s get back to should teachers be highly skilled in their own practice – I think that has to be part of the teacher training. I am not saying one should not get a certificate if he/she cannot do something ridiculously difficult. But that is the time that one should be able to be the best.”
Pilates Mat, only weights and a Magic Circle? – and reading RTL
“Deborah, I just recently wrote an article for Pilates Intel ‘A Challenge to the Pilates People’ where I counter the rigid classical view that using equipment other than weights and a Magic Circle for matwork is not sanctioned by the ‘Pilates people’ and therefore not Pilates. What is your take on this?”
“If you are working with a Pilates concept and you translate that onto an auxiliary piece of equipment, or no equipment. Of course it is Pilates.”
“So you not one of these ‘Pilates people’?”
“No, I am not” she chuckles. “Because of limited space in my studio I don’t have much room for experimentation, we use the equipment that is there. Certainly if I have a client that is not getting what I am trying to convey, I will absolutely find a way to get them to feel it. And by the way, Brett, there was something you did some time back (Return to Life – A Requirement for All Pilates Teachers?)but did not comment on but thought to now….to be a Pilates teacher and not have read ‘Return to Life’—-that does not fly!”
“It is the only piece of writing that we have from him where he states his philosophy.”
“In the process of starting the PMA, we stated that we need to go back to Joe and relearn and see things with fresh eyes. I read ‘RTL’ 15 times in a span of about 2 months. Since then, 15 years later, I find myself constantly aligning myself with his philosophy. It is so important! I truly don’t think you can understand the method without reading that book. The exercises are just part of the work; he was really talking about a holistic approach. If we are going to use his name, we need to abide by his philosophy – which I find in the larger sense includes:
- Breath
- Commitment/discipline.
- The whole body developing uniformly.”
“Yes” I add enthusiastically “I think that teaching Pilates well means imparting to the clients that each and every movement is the action of the whole.”
A spontaneous pause of satisfaction and subtle joy descends upon the conversation, marking a natural conclusion to our interaction of ease and honesty…and we both giggle a little bit.
“I like talking to you Deborah. I really feel your passion.
“Well, thank you, and I enjoy it, and we can just keep it going.”
That is wonderful – for me and for everyone.